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What do you think?
These people are tax cheats 17%  17%  [ 4 ]
I support the defense 75%  75%  [ 18 ]
I've considered doing this as well 8%  8%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 24
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 Post subject: Employer's gold, silver payroll standard may bring hard tim
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 5:03 pm 
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Title: Employer's gold, silver payroll standard may bring hard time
Source: Las Vegas Review-Journal
Link: http://www.lvrj.com/news/46074037.html#blogcomments?submitted=y
Quote:
...

Three of the four present defendants were among the nine people tried on similar charges two years ago, but no convictions resulted. In the 2007 trial, four others of the nine defendants, including Kahre's mother, were entirely acquitted. Two individuals were only partially acquitted, but dropped from the indictment that forms the basis for the trial before Ezra.

...

Kahre contends his workers had agreed to be independent contractors, so he did not have to withhold taxes for them. His six businesses are in the trades of painting, drywall, tiling, plumbing, heating-cooling and electrical work.

Further, the $50 gold coins and the silver dollars Kahre used for payroll are designated by Congress as legal tender, so people are entitled to value them at their stamped denominations, he also contends. Taken at face value, each defendant's annual coin income placed him below the threshold for filing a federal tax return.

...


I've heard of this before as may have many of you. Be interesting to see how this develops. Apparently it is proving difficult getting criminal charges to stick.


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 Post subject: Re: Employer's gold, silver payroll standard may bring hard tim
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 8:32 pm 
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Actually, what is minimum wage? $6/hour? Or are they exempt from that as well for being contractors? If not, they might do better prosecuting them for violating the minimum wage laws.


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 Post subject: Re: Employer's gold, silver payroll standard may bring hard tim
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 12:18 am 
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Senthen wrote:
Actually, what is minimum wage? $6/hour? Or are they exempt from that as well for being contractors? If not, they might do better prosecuting them for violating the minimum wage laws.



If they are independent contractors then minimum wage does not count. You can agree to work for someone for 1 penny a day or free or you could pay someone to let you work (like Woody Allen did in one of his movies). If the recipients agree that they are independent contractors, then I doubt the gubmint can do anything about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Employer's gold, silver payroll standard may bring hard tim
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 9:59 am 
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They are no different than any other tax dodger, and you and I have to make up the difference as well as pay for their prosecution. They will eventually lose, go to jail, and it will have cost us millions to accomplish it.

Hope you are happy with the result, because it disgusts me.


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 Post subject: Re: Employer's gold, silver payroll standard may bring hard tim
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 12:20 pm 
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And the verdict is ???? In case no one followed the original story.

Quote:
Sep. 20, 2007
Copyright © Las Vegas Review-Journal

Four-month trial ends with no convictions

Federal income tax evasion case involved nine defendants

By JOAN WHITELY
REVIEW-JOURNAL

A criminal tax case alleging income tax evasion and conspiracy dissolved in federal court this week, when a jury returned zero convictions on 161 charges faced by nine defendants.

Monday's verdict "sends a strong message," said defense attorney Lisa Rasmussen, who represented Joel Axberg, a tile layer.

Informally called the Kahre case -- after the primary defendant, local business owner Robert Kahre, who paid workers in gold and silver coins -- the trial lasted four months. It relied heavily on evidence gathered in a controversial armed raid in May 2003 on several of Kahre's local business places. The raid entailed keeping more than 20 workers handcuffed, at gunpoint, in 106-degree heat without shade or water while agents collected records and equipment.

"Yeah, that's a pretty major victory," said defense lawyer William Cohan. "If you go 0 for 160 (in baseball), they'd send you down to the minor leagues."

Cohan was upbeat although his client, Kahre, was not acquitted of any of his 109 charges. Rather, the jury hung on all of Kahre's counts.

The jury also hung on all counts faced by Kahre's sister, Lori Kahre, and defendant Alex Loglia.

Four defendants acquitted of all the charges against them were Axberg, Robert Furman, Ron Ruggles, and Kahre's mother, Myra Buonomo.

"It was the most wonderful feeling and the most wonderful day in ages," Buonomo, 66, said of her acquittal. She said she works "more or less as a runner" for her son's construction-related businesses. Part of the case hinged on whether Kahre's workers were employees or independent contractors, who are responsible for paying their own taxes.

Two other defendants, Dannielle Alires and Debra Rosenbaum, were partly acquitted, with the jury hung on one count each.

Before trial, five additional defendants had pleaded guilty.

Michael Kennedy, who defended Lori Kahre, said the case turned on the notion that taxpayers could be wrong without being criminal. He was referring to the fact that his client, Lori Kahre, and other defendants had not paid taxes according to the market value of the precious metal content of the coins in which they were paid, as opposed to their face value. He conceded at trial that his client may owe federal taxes for her mistakes.

The Internal Revenue Service had never before provided guidance on how to handle gold and silver coins that circulate, only on noncirculating collectible coins, according to Kennedy, who is a federal public defender. "If that's the case, we're not going to take someone's liberty from them, on something that a (certified public accountant) with a master's degree doesn't even know. That's a scary country, and I don't live in that country."

J. Gregory Damm, the assistant U.S. attorney who led the prosecution, declined to say whether the government will retry any of the five defendants on the charges that resulted in a hung jury. Damm referred the newspaper to Natalie Collins, public affairs specialist for the U.S. attorney's office in Las Vegas.

Acting U.S. Attorney Steven W. Myhre issued a statement through Collins that thanked jurors, investigators and prosecutors. "Ultimately, the responsibility lies with the jury to decide whether the government met its burden of proof in the case and we accept their decision." He said the office will "soon decide" whether to retry any defendants.

Jurors got stuck on the question of whether the government had proved defendants intentionally violated tax law, according to David Ramirez, jury foreman. "Oh my God, the willfulness is very hard to prove, as we found out," Ramirez, 49, said Wednesday. "That was the hard part, especially in the conspiracy charge." Ramirez works in management for the U.S. Postal Service.

The government "did not present one witness who agreed with the conspiracy theory," said attorney Joel Hansen, who defended Loglia. Currently unemployed, Loglia did paralegal work for Kahre.

The jurors favoring acquittal varied by defendant, Ramirez said. "Personally, I went guilty (on some counts) and some, not guilty." He said when the 12 jurors split on a count, it was usually a 6-6 or 7-5 split.

Ramirez said the prosecuting team had a clear, although silent, reaction to the verdict: "The head was hanging down, the shoulders were low." He said "shocked" was the term some prosecutors used to describe themselves when they talked to him after the trial.

Cohan did not want Robert Kahre, who testified during the trial, to talk to reporters after the trial because his client and five others still face additional charges in a separate criminal tax case set for trial in January. That case alleges Kahre hid assets by having relatives or friends buy property in their names using his funds.

Once the criminal cases are over, Kahre will pursue related civil actions he has filed against several parties, including federal prosecutor Damm, Internal Revenue Service agents and North Las Vegas police officers who had roles in the raid or indictment process.


It will be interesting to see the final outcome.


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 Post subject: Re: Employer's gold, silver payroll standard may bring hard tim
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:08 am 
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As long as they were paying capitol gains tax, there would be no reason to prosecute. I doubt if anyone was buying $50 worth of groceries with a gold eagle. The article and everything I have read about this case doesn't state whether or not capitol gains taxes were paid. This should have been the primary focus of the prosecution. As long as the Federal Government declares the value of gold to be 42.22 per ounce and mints $50.00 gold coins as legal tender, then they need to live up to their own rules. Sorry, you can't have it both ways.


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 Post subject: Re: Employer's gold, silver payroll standard may bring hard tim
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:23 pm 
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So, could someone buy a 100,000 dollar house with roughly 100 gold coins? and pay taxes on only the 5000 dollars face of the gold coins? I find this very interesting, because how can ANYONE tell me I cant sell my house for 5,000. Whether or not that 5,000 is gold coins doesnt seem to change that. And IF that is perfectly legal, would it be illegal to try to only pay taxes on the 5,000. Rather then the value of the coins? Lets say I had a crisp rare bill that was worth more money than face value, maybe I inherited it and did not realise it.(I know there is some but I dont know much about which ones) Would the person who accepted it in trade be in trouble if on the way to the bank they realised it was rare and took it to a dealer who paid them 10 times face value? Lets say this was a car being sold privately, would this person when registering the title and they ask for the sale price of the car be breaking the law if he said the sale price was lets say 1000, when he had essentially gotten 1900 because on of the 100 bills was a valued collectors item? This seems to me like a valid loophole with no fair way to close it. I applaud the guy who thought of paying his employees this way. One thing though did this gut check the spot prices daily before he paid, or was it a set amount of gold or silver?

I notice atleast on this forum theres WAY more avid silver hoarder then there is gold hoarders, I wonder if per capita,(maybe not per dollar) if this holds true. For whatever reason I ALWAYS liked gold more than silver, just from an appearance level. When I invested in silver, it was as much for that reason as it was that I feel silver is atleast as strong as gold, and likely since more can invest in it, will outshine it someday. Is it true there is more above ground silver then gold now? this seems to me that bcause of that the silver/gold ratio should be more like 5-1 instead of 60-1 or whatever it is now. Atleast until more silver is mined. Anyone have any thoughts as to why there is this descrepancy?


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 Post subject: Re: Employer's gold, silver payroll standard may bring hard tim
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:42 pm 
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It is another attempt by crooks to slide by without paying their fair share. That seems to be the style lately.

To answer your questions, if you buy a car for 1000.00 and later sell it for 10,000.00 you are liable for tax on 9,000.00. If you are paid a 50.00 gold eagle and sell it for 1000.00, you are laible for tax on 1000.00.

The problem is that these crooks are trying to pay tax on 50.00, sell the coins for 1000.00, and keep the whole thing. That is dishonest and I suspect in the end that they will discover that they not only have to pay their taxes, but also serve jail time for tax evasion. After all that is what they are doing.


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 Post subject: Re: Employer's gold, silver payroll standard may bring hard tim
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:01 pm 
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The Gov't should be required to enforce their "rules" in a consistent manner. Are they monitoring and persuing capital gains taxes on all of those "roll sorters" out there? These people are making a killing at the taxpayer's expense :lol:

There are many more, larger, fish to fry out there that the IRS should be spending our taxpayer's $ persuing. Like corporations that give phony offshore corporate headquarter addresses or US Treasury Secrretarys that "forget" that they were paid.

Quote:
doktorchris

As long as the Federal Government declares the value of gold to be 42.22 per ounce and mints $50.00 gold coins as legal tender, then they need to live up to their own rules. Sorry, you can't have it both ways.


I have a hard time labeling these people "criminals" whether they paid the capital gains tax or not. I'm a US citizen and the "law of the land" states that a dollar is a defined amount of silver. The IRS prosecuting these people for following the letter of the Constitution is just a coverup for the fact that they are breaking the Constitution (which is treason, a crime against the citizens of this country). If I side with the IRS and the FED then I'm also saying that I too, do not abide by the US Constitution. It's BS that the gov't declares the value of gold to be $42.22 and then wants to tax it's citizens on the real life value of gold at $900+. I don't always express myself well, but I think the real question here is "Who's commiting the greater crime?"


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 Post subject: Re: Employer's gold, silver payroll standard may bring hard tim
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:13 am 
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WARNING controversial material in this post. Many might just want to skip it.

supposedly the reason we went off the gold standard, was to keep money at a more stable value, and so the feds, could print more money to invigorate the economy in tough times right? Im pretty sure thats the claim. Yet gold and silver buy roughly the same amount of goods they did 100 years ago. It might not be completly stable but clearly more stable then ANY, paper currency could be. And as far as being able to get the economy going by printing cash, well obviously that isnt working. why do we insist on making the same mistakes over and over. To me this shows a very clear conspiracy of some sort. Im willing to bet the original people who decided to use paper in our country had ore silver and gold thn most of us do in their safes at home. I also bet geithner and bernake and the rest do as well. Inflation is simply a way to keep us all enslaved to our money. yet many americns will argue debt and inflation are good at manageable levels(we passed thatlong ago) But just the interest on our debt is now around a billion probably more by now. That is around 1215.45 per AMERICAN. including our kids. just in interest. Imagine what over a third of a trillion a year extra we could be spending. The way economists talk we should just borrow more and more yearly but at sustainable levels.
I truly do not see any possible way out of this but an eventual default, the ONLY reason it hasnt happened yet is so far we always found new countries to invest in our dollars, so w could sell more of thm and noones realises theres way more then people generally account for. I forget the numbers but the day all or even ten percent of our dollars come home our dollar is done. So far since the rest of the world is hurting its helped our dollar since we are percieved as being so strong, but this can change fast and undoubtedly will if we stay on this borrow and spend path.
Some would say buying our own debt as so many americans do as investments is a good thin, builds retirement income. But isnt this thought kinda like some twisted welfare? I man obviously these people deserv a return on investments, but does that mean we should stay in debt so those with money to invest, keep this income? terrible logic.
I hope someday to trade the toilet paper Ive been hoarding by the pound for crisp 100 dollar bills. I intend to wallpaper my house with them for a retro look.
If the current way our dollar is managed wasnt designed to steal our real wealth and keep us trapped in a cycle where we have to make money forever, to beat inflation rather then get enough to retire , then Im really confused.
And whats this crap about america selling billions of ounces of silver, to keep the price down? WTF sure I see the need to pull coins out of circulation in 1964 since the metal was worth more then face, and people could mlt them, but we owned a larger stockpile of silver then any country EVER had or likely ever will, and we wanted the price forced down? I must say that is some extremely faulty logic. and Im sure those in washington truly do use 300 dollar hammers and 3 thousand dollar toilets right?
Time to take back our country from these corporations and puppet leaders who with a complicite media over generations train us to expect the gov. to "help" (this is BOTH sides be honest with yourselves) Training us to follow the left vs. right mantras. Using target issues to piss us off at eachother so we ignore the thieves. Bush crapped on the constitution, much of the right still loved him. The left was pissed and said never again. Obama gets in the right is pissed, bcaus obama hates the constitution as much as bush did, yet the left still supports obama as the right did bush. This is insane. They just switch from left to right and each side is trained to blame the citizens of the other half, and to ignore THEIR sides same disregard for the constitution. Its works well I might add most of us never even see the shell game. a prime example the patriot act erased vast sections of our constitution supposedly to keep us safe, yet bush and the republican congress he had at first left the borders and ports open. Theres hundreds more examples but that one should be very obvious for anyone wih the hear to desire true liberty. Our forefathers warned us of this, ALL of it. from lobbyists to our money being backed by silver nd gold, to a two party system, to well pretty much all the stuff most of us cirrently accept.
Our constitution might not be 100 percent perfect, but it is the closest humans have yet come.
My grandmother recently went to zimmbabwe(dont ask m why shes silly) it is a common practice there to pay for a meal BEFORE you eat so the currency doesnt inflate your ability to pay away before you finish your meal. I doubt our inflation will get that bad, but germany and russia could be likely models for what we can expect. Although if all those countries do send all those dollars to us at once, it could be alot worse then that.
I wonder if we will end up with ameros, or credits on our implanted chips?
Another thing should we rethink how congress works? Do we really need a body of 435 people to make new laws FOREVER. Maybe they should just meet once a month or so, or just when a new technology merits new laws? Will there ever be a day in thse globalists minds when we have enough laws? Or will there ver be a day congress actually reads a bill BEFORE they sign it into law? Maybe thats a good law, congress must actually read bills before voting on them. outlaw lobbyists, find ways to erase our national debts(legalise marijuiana maybe?)Also should WE vote on our supreme court judges rther then how it is done now? Should this really be a lifetime position? seems insane to me. I see few on either side who truly value liberty , and truth anymore... its a sad place to raise a child. We spend 25 or 30 thousand per year per student in school yet they are less literate then the generations taught in one room school houes. WTF. My wife is a gradeschool teacher, and it is my opinion school was NOT designed to teach, rather its just a form of social dogma. Training us to think in certain ways now matter our future political bends. Who would have thought communism and neo nazism would blend so well. I should stop now Im sure homeland security already acknowledged my desire for freedom, and is putting me on some watchlist as we speak. (hey johnny heres another person who thinks he should be able to lead his own life as long as he doesnt infringe on others grab your gun johnny)
And by the way homeland security voyeurs, if you are out there, is this the world you want to leave your kids? One where our leaders build a pyramid sceme so well we do not even remember it is us with the power? we the people of this united states. Can you look yourself in the eyes in the mirror anymore? Do you truly see it as a threat when someone desires self determination? It certainly seems so.
when katrina hit noon even knew whos job it was to go help. Is ths true as the news said? I doubt it, the feds wanted TROOPS on te ground the state gov down there wouldnt sign off on it. Remember the tidal waves half way around the world we had troops there in hours.
Im not making this up. Our leaders actually did a huge study to see if our troops would kill americans on orders, the vast majority would not. Soon after that, we grew the numbers of people in those outfits outside of the standard military, of the more hardcore fighters, and foreiners. All of whom WILL be willing to kill americans on command.
As a passifst the day this comes to pass you will see me in front of the crowds being run over by a tank, with a constitution in one hand, my silver (yes Im taking it with me lol) and a tear in my eye as a spit on the machine that runs me down. Maybe you will think of me when you tuck your grandkids into their new"pod" , as we are hading towards being pod people.
las but not least DOWN WITH MONSANTO (DONT THINK THERE IS A GLOBAL CONSPIRACY TO RULE THE WORLD STUDY THE IMF, the federal reserve, the world bank, and read actual speeches from cfr meetings) the conspiracy is that this ISNT happening. please take back responcibility for yourselves my friends.


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 Post subject: Another News Follow-up
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:19 pm 
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US feds subpoena names of anonymous web commenters
Source: The Register
Link: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/17/vegas_paper_subpoenaed_for_commenter_posts/

Quote:
The all-too-typical violent hyperbole found in reader comments across the internet has landed one Las Vegas newspaper in the hot seat with US prosecutors.

The Las Vegas Review-Journal says it has been served with a federal grand jury subpoena seeking information on people who posted supposedly threatening anonymous comments on a story about a tax fraud trial.

According to LVRJ, the subpoena seeks the identities and contact information of those who made certain posts prosecutors believe allude to acts of violence against the jury and others involved with the case.


....


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 Post subject: Re: Employer's gold, silver payroll standard may bring hard tim
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:25 am 
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Preach it silverseeds! Got gold and silver? Sincerely, John Leckrone


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 Post subject: Re: Employer's gold, silver payroll standard may bring hard tim
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:51 am 
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lol....

the government and the big money people that they serve are the crooks and criminals


85%+++ here side with the defense! I love that.


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