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 Post subject: Re: Charts....gold and silver..daily
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:34 pm 
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Both silver and gold had a pullback today as the dollar strengthened on the positive economic data from non farms and unemployment. Silver is now looking at 18.34 as support and we have discussed this level in recent post at the end of November. Miners took a bigger hit, for many of them this was a correction. Equities were up considerably on the open but the dollar bugs could see what was happen long before equities reacted shortly after the open. Equities did close up on the session which curbed any view of a reversal. I would love to be a guest in a room full of short dollar speculators right now. Other than the pull back it was another frantic Friday as the market whipsawed through the day. I included the gold chart to show the waterfall effect that took place on the dollar move. Sunday when the Globex opens should be interesting. Will buyers return to the gold table, I think they will next week. This was a decent pullback. I will be looking for an opportunity to buy a bit of bullion. I still believe that we may see some selling in equities towards the end of the year to lock in gains for the year before the books close. The lack of movement in silver compared to golds increase recently, held silver back from a larger percentage loss than gold.

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As for the dollar. The moves lately by the Fed has led many to think the Fed is easing and that rates could go up sooner than expected. Sales of JP Morgan warrents that the Federal Reserve bought with your money will be auctioned off next week and should show a profit on your investment. Also Capital One warrent are being auction off and will be listed on the the NYSE as (COFWS) according to the NYT. So the mystery remains afoot and gets more interesting by the week. There is only one economic report on Monday. Everyone have a great weekend!!!

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December, 7th

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 Post subject: Re: Charts....gold and silver..daily
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:12 pm 
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gold drops over $60oz today (friday) at comex.....and afterhour trading is getting ugly.

to sum it up in one word? POP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Charts....gold and silver..daily
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:59 pm 
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if this bull market in Commodities was the "Real McCoy", I think we'd see higher Platinum and Silver prices as well...as Gold is breaking new record highs daily, Platinum is only about half way to its all time high and Silver is still off a couple/few dollars....the rally appears to be only in Gold which is interesting, maybe the IMF/India deal. Or it could be that the rumors of China demanding collateral from the US (in the form of Gold bullion) were more than just rumors...or maybe a combination of both ...


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 Post subject: Re: Charts....gold and silver..daily
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:22 am 
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horsewhspers wrote:
if this bull market in Commodities was the "Real McCoy", I think we'd see higher Platinum and Silver prices as well...as Gold is breaking new record highs daily, Platinum is only about half way to its all time high and Silver is still off a couple/few dollars....the rally appears to be only in Gold which is interesting, maybe the IMF/India deal. Or it could be that the rumors of China demanding collateral from the US (in the form of Gold bullion) were more than just rumors...or maybe a combination of both ...


I don't know, Horse, a lot of things don't make sense. Is gold over priced, or is silver under priced? We haven't seen anything like this economic situation before. I mean an economic world wide shake-up with PM uncontrolled in a free market, sort of. We had the big one in the 30's but gold was standardized (supposedly). Before that, we did not have the big world economic connections like we do in modern times. I wish I had some history of the economies of Rome when it collapsed. We could get some sort of model on how the PM markets reacted to socioeconomic conditions like this. It would be on a smaller scale and missing the big banking components, but maybe it would show how the trading of PM acted.

Maybe gold is the natural indicator. Maybe there hidden manipulators of the other metals. Who knows? If it is manipulation, I hope I can get a bunch more silver before the price goes through the roof after the manipulators are finished! The thing that confuses me is that the silver prices are reacting to the mini-socio-cycles like any non manipulated market would act like. We had the price mimic gold through out this bigger cycle, but the increases I would expect are not there. I read articles about how silver is becoming more rare. Many writers say that silver is as rare as gold right now. If that is the case, why is silver not at a higher price? Maybe the manipulations are in gold and silver is reacting to the machinations of that manipulation?


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 Post subject: Re: Charts....gold and silver..daily
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:34 pm 
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You may find your answer in the speculative plays that have taken place recently. Especially in the Gold and the dollar. This mess is the result of a bubble busting in the derivatives market. Which was part a partial a scam put on by mortgage companies, large investment banks and insurers. All that has happened is a result of those events. The fact that gold has risen so much higher that other metals is a hint. The short positions in the dollar is what has taken it down to it's present levels. If those short should ever cover (which they will eventually do) the day of the gold bubble will come to and end and the speculators will roll over into the next sector. Fundamentals play a huge part of the Forex market, they have no interest in the futures market. If you want to look for the canary in the coal mine, this might be one area you would want to watch closely. Be that as it may, gold will continue to hold it's intrinsic value at any price.

There are similarities to the the Black days of 1929. After the massive crash, in 1933 the Congress enacted the "Glass-Steagall Act." Which forced the the separation of commercial banks from large investment banks. It seems to have worked. However, on Nov. 12, 1999, President Clinton signed the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act ( the Gramm that called the US a nation of whiners), which repealed the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933. The rest is history. To this day we have not reinstated any of the safeguards that allowed the Large Investment Banks and insurers to pull one of the biggest scams in history, like the uptick rule or the Glass-Steagall act. We still do not have reform or regulation changes to this day. Are we wide open for a second hit, absolutely. What really pisses me off, is that the Investment Banks have now become FDIC insured. We may need another hit like in the 30s to shake up Congress once again, it is obvious that Sept. 08' has waned in their memories and we are once again riding along on a hope and a prayer.

Hang on.


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 Post subject: Re: Charts....gold and silver..daily
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 6:40 pm 
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http://www.caseyresearch.com/displayCdd.php?id=291

Perhaps it is because I just watched the latest Star Trek movie on DVD, but I feel much like Captain Kirk of the Starship Enterprise, hurtling through space as the ship is buffeted violently.

From the intercom, a distinctly Scottish voice shouts, “Engineering to the helm! She’s breaking up, Capt’n, and can’t take much more!”

Calmly, I scan the ship’s computer for data, yelling back at Scotty as I do, “You’ve got to buy us time, I don’t care how you do it!”

“Aye, I’ll do my best, but it won’t be easy,” mutters the ever-stressed engineer, flipping off the intercom as he turns his attention back to the falling pipes and sparking electronics that surround him.

“Chekov!” I snap. “Report. What’s happening?”

“Traders are rushing out of ze dollar carry trade. Zey seem to tink the unemployment numbers are indicating an actual recovery.”

“Well, is it? Is it really a recovery?” I shout. “Sulu, I need the information! What’s the econotron indicating?”

“Look for yourself, Captain,” he responds, projecting the data onto the large screen.

http://www.caseyresearch.com/kkcImages/ ... image1.JPG

“Spock, what does it mean?”

“Simply, Jim, that the problems that have brought us to this place in the first place – starting with record levels of debt – have actually worsened. Just look at household debt. Sure, it’s flattened and come off slightly, but look at federal debt – it looks like a rocket leaving the Argonian atmosphere.”

“And interest rates?”

“Very interesting. All logic dictates that historic levels of debt should send interest rates higher, not lower. But until recently, that hasn’t been the case. I can’t explain it. Unless…”

“Yes, man, don’t hold back!”

“Engineering to the Capt’n, she’s breaki…”

“Not now, Scotty! I get it! Spock, continue!”

“Well,” Spock continues, “it could be the result of passing through a cloud of Bernankium.”

“Bernankium?”

“Yes, it’s a noxious gas that causes mass delusions, creating something akin to an alternate universe where everything is turned upside down. For example, instead of heavily indebted consumers being urged to spend less and save more, they are urged to borrow more in order to consume more. Instead of rising to reduce the demand for money, interest rates fall, actually reducing any incentive to save. Meanwhile, the government tries to solve the debt problem by going further into debt. The pressure on the economy, instead of easing, only grows.”

“But how will it end?”

“Impossible to say, but history tells us that, in time, interest rates have to go up. In fact, if you look at the screen, you can see that that may be beginning to happen now. If it does, then, well, the universe as we know it could implode as rising rates crush what’s left of the economy.”

“What about unemployment? Couldn’t the latest numbers be indicating a turnaround? You know, where people will begin earning money again, paying taxes, buying houses and flat screens and all that? And, maybe even reducing their debt before interest rates go sky high? Give me some hope, damn it!”

“Sorry Jim, it’s not as good as the latest data might suggest. Uhura, show the Captain the Chart of the Day.”

http://www.caseyresearch.com/kkcImages/ ... image2.jpg

“As you can see,” Spock continues, “unemployment is still way off by historic norms.”

“But today’s numbers?”

“Uhura, next slide.”

http://www.caseyresearch.com/kkcImages/ ... image3.jpg

“What am I looking at?”

“It’s a chart of the Bureau of Labor Statistics data showing the number of people now working only part-time because they can’t find full-time work. As you can see, there is a pretty strong correlation between a turnaround in those numbers and the end of recessions. That’s because in an economic downturn, businesses favor hiring part-time workers over full time. Only when they are sure that it’s safe to go back in the water, so to speak, they will then reduce temporary workers in favor of full timers. In the latest unemployment data, there were only three sectors of the economy that actually saw gains: government, health care – we’re getting older, Jim – and temporary help services. The rest? All down.“

“But why the latest upswing in part-timers?”

“Well, November is just ahead of the Earth’s holidays, and so some businesses feel they need additional staff. But they can’t bear the cost of hiring full-time employees – taxes, insurance, etc., etc. So, temp workers it is.”

“The dollar? Gold? Gold stocks?”

“Well, here’s the good news. You see, Bernankium acts like a mass hallucinogen. You know, like those mushrooms you and Bones experimented with last year on Alpha-Beta when you took off all your clothes and started chasing after Uh…”

“Yes, I remember, but cut to the chase, damn it!”

“Well, the thing is that the Bernankium has made almost everyone lose touch with reality. If you want to see reality, just look back at the first chart. Debt is still at historic highs, and there is no end to it in sight. In other words, nothing has really changed.”

“So, you’re saying that… most people are delusional, and they think it has?”

“Correct.”

“And so, all we have to do is to stay the course?”

“Exactly.”

“So, gold and gold stocks are falling only due to mass hallucinations, and the smart move would be to go to warp speed and…”

“Yes, Jim, buy more.”

“Engine room, this is the captain.”

“Yes, Captain!”

“Stop yer whining and go to warp speed, Scotty!”


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 Post subject: Re: Charts....gold and silver..daily
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 6:50 pm 
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Solarindex wrote:
You may find your answer in the speculative plays that have taken place recently. Especially in the Gold and the dollar. This mess is the result of a bubble busting in the derivatives market. Which was part a partial a scam put on by mortgage companies, large investment banks and insurers. All that has happened is a result of those events. The fact that gold has risen so much higher that other metals is a hint. The short positions in the dollar is what has taken it down to it's present levels. If those short should ever cover (which they will eventually do) the day of the gold bubble will come to and end and the speculators will roll over into the next sector. Fundamentals play a huge part of the Forex market, they have no interest in the futures market. If you want to look for the canary in the coal mine, this might be one area you would want to watch closely. Be that as it may, gold will continue to hold it's intrinsic value at any price.

There are similarities to the the Black days of 1929. After the massive crash, in 1933 the Congress enacted the "Glass-Steagall Act." Which forced the the separation of commercial banks from large investment banks. It seems to have worked. However, on Nov. 12, 1999, President Clinton signed the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act ( the Gramm that called the US a nation of whiners), which repealed the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933. The rest is history. To this day we have not reinstated any of the safeguards that allowed the Large Investment Banks and insurers to pull one of the biggest scams in history, like the uptick rule or the Glass-Steagall act. We still do not have reform or regulation changes to this day. Are we wide open for a second hit, absolutely. What really pisses me off, is that the Investment Banks have now become FDIC insured. We may need another hit like in the 30s to shake up Congress once again, it is obvious that Sept. 08' has waned in their memories and we are once again riding along on a hope and a prayer.

Hang on.


As a life long Democrat all I can say about him signing that bill into law is; That F____in Clinton, what the hell was he thinking. (Or, maybe, not thinking) Investment banks are not banks "of the people" but banks that are intending to make a profit "in spite of the people".

HiLo, I'll have to come back and read your post later, love Star Trek analogies (er, spin offs, spoofs). Gotta go though, need to find some Australian silver lunars for my niece, great nieces and great nephew as Christmas presents. Have the Daughter all sorted out, she's getting a gold lunar.


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 Post subject: Re: Charts....gold and silver..daily
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:31 pm 
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Solarindex wrote:
You may find your answer in the speculative plays that have taken place recently. Especially in the Gold and the dollar. This mess is the result of a bubble busting in the derivatives market. Which was part a partial a scam put on by mortgage companies, large investment banks and insurers. All that has happened is a result of those events. The fact that gold has risen so much higher that other metals is a hint. The short positions in the dollar is what has taken it down to it's present levels. If those short should ever cover (which they will eventually do) the day of the gold bubble will come to and end and the speculators will roll over into the next sector. Fundamentals play a huge part of the Forex market, they have no interest in the futures market. If you want to look for the canary in the coal mine, this might be one area you would want to watch closely. Be that as it may, gold will continue to hold it's intrinsic value at any price.

There are similarities to the the Black days of 1929. After the massive crash, in 1933 the Congress enacted the "Glass-Steagall Act." Which forced the the separation of commercial banks from large investment banks. It seems to have worked. However, on Nov. 12, 1999, President Clinton signed the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act ( the Gramm that called the US a nation of whiners), which repealed the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933. The rest is history. To this day we have not reinstated any of the safeguards that allowed the Large Investment Banks and insurers to pull one of the biggest scams in history, like the uptick rule or the Glass-Steagall act. We still do not have reform or regulation changes to this day. Are we wide open for a second hit, absolutely. What really pisses me off, is that the Investment Banks have now become FDIC insured. We may need another hit like in the 30s to shake up Congress once again, it is obvious that Sept. 08' has waned in their memories and we are once again riding along on a hope and a prayer.

Hang on.


We keep talking about these speculators and their derivative plays, what happens when the fiddler asks for payment and there is no money to pay with? There are some huge shorts out there right now. It seems they are playing shorts to pay the last ones that there was no product or money to pay the on last round. It is like floating checks. Eventually you will run out of banks and accounts. Then money will have to be paid. Unless the players all go into bankruptcy. Then we will pay.

Fundamentally, you are right SI, the FOREX will be the canary. It is choking right now. I am not mad at the big banks. They are just making money. It is not the big banks that are our problem either.


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 Post subject: Re: Charts....gold and silver..daily
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:33 am 
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Who knows? If it is manipulation, I hope I can get a bunch more silver before the price goes through the roof after the manipulators are finished!


Well that is another good point, it could be that the Fed is buying up as much Gold as they can get their hands on. There are a couple reasons I can think of that they might do this,

1. To try to fool Financial Advisers into thinking that inflation has taken hold in the US. Inflation is better than Deflation from their perspective

2. When inflation does take hold, The Fed stands to make a bundle if they are holding Gold.

I think that when the "Real McCoy" does come to fruition, we will see everything [commodities] run for the roof in tandem....oil, gold, platinum, silver, copper... all of it...perhaps that is why China has been so busy stocking up on hard assets [ie - "all of it"]...the scary thing is that US *Leadership* does not appear to be stocking up on "all of it" and so it causes pause to wonder if their real agenda is to embrace and support deflation for the interim.... throwing false signals of inflation [ie - record gold prices] will shake the last of the buyers into the market before the big pull back...and won't China be pissed that they had paid $1200 for a Golden Oz if/when the price again hits $750?


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 Post subject: Re: Charts....gold and silver..daily
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:13 am 
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horsewhspers wrote:
...and won't China be pissed that they had paid $1200 for a Golden Oz if/when the price again hits $750?
They might be amused to let it fall back to $750 an ounce, then simply start buying gold at that price until
a) They run out of those funny green slips of paper.
b) Price of gold gets back up to $1100 or more.
Given the amount of gold available, and the size of the Chinese holdings in FRN or FRN denominated investments, which do you think would happen first? I suspect the only reason they wouldn't do that is it would tend to drive the won up in value, and I don't think they want that.


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 Post subject: Re: Charts....gold and silver..daily
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:58 am 
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An interesting debate. One thing is for sure 2010 will no doubt be nuts as the last two years. I am looking forward to it. Sorry but I have to stick a First call to our simulator session in the middle of this, it should move quickly off the page.


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 Post subject: Re: Charts....gold and silver..daily
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:59 am 
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Because the Holidays are approaching and they will be very busy time for all of us. I am posting the first call to the next Simulator round a bit early.

First Call....

Everyone is welcome to join our 7th Trading Simulator session. It is for fun and for users to learn more about trading in the markets, especially in the gold and silver mining sectors as well as other products like oil and general equities. It last for one quarter or 3 months, you do not have to tend to your stocks on an everyday basis, if you wish to play long and invest for a long periods that works out for many to be a winning play. We have had many that join and do not trade. Please, if you do not intend to participate but have questions. We have a thread in the "Base Metals, stocks, charts and commodities" forum.

You are given a bank account in the Cayman Islands, as that is where your winter home is located.

You have an account of $100,000 US and $100,000 Canadian.
The game will start on the January 1st, 2010 and will end March 31th, 2010. Breaking our sessions into 4 quarters.

Pre-Sign in for the January 1st, 2010 Simulator:

Rules and instruction for the game can be found here.

If you are already signed in on the latest simulator, it will more than likely sign you up for July and then take you to the current game. If you go to "games" and look to see if January's simulator shows up, it means you have signed up for that session. If you are new, then you'll get the sign in messages. After the simulator updates that night, the next day you should be listed in the rankings....Sim starts July 1st. This is a safe site that we have used for quite sometime now. If it should ask you for a password it is "Traders".

If anyone has problems signing up for the January Simulator. Please let me know and we will take care of it. Thanks!

SI


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 Post subject: Re: Charts....gold and silver..daily
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:05 pm 
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They might be amused to let it fall back to $750 an ounce, then simply start buying gold at that price until
a) They run out of those funny green slips of paper.
b) Price of gold gets back up to $1100 or more.


I'd be "for" either one of those scenarios, and I too would follow suit and start buying Gold and Silver again...


Quote:
I suspect the only reason they wouldn't do that is it would tend to drive the won up in value, and I don't think they want that.


A good point but why not? Although the Chinese are not on a Gold Standard, a strong Yuan and a weak Dollar would make US Products and Services more competitive in the Global Market...the last 4 Administrations have been complaining that the Chinese have been keeping their currency artificially low so they can retain the market share...


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 Post subject: Re: Charts....gold and silver..daily
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:08 pm 
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jeffreybrower20 wrote:
Solarindex wrote:
Fundamentally, you are right SI, the FOREX will be the canary. It is choking right now. I am not mad at the big banks. They are just making money. It is not the big banks that are our problem either.


I would like to know your thoughts behind the investment banks and insurers not being the biggest problem and cause behind of our latest predicament. There is nothing wrong with making money. However, there is something terribly wrong in the way it was made a lost. I do not particularly care for giving billions of our money to banks, only to have them start the scam over again.


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 Post subject: Re: Charts....gold and silver..daily
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:25 pm 
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horsewhspers wrote:
Quote:
They might be amused to let it fall back to $750 an ounce, then simply start buying gold at that price until
a) They run out of those funny green slips of paper.
b) Price of gold gets back up to $1100 or more.


I'd be "for" either one of those scenarios, and I too would follow suit and start buying Gold and Silver again...


Quote:
I suspect the only reason they wouldn't do that is it would tend to drive the won up in value, and I don't think they want that.


A good point but why not? Although the Chinese are not on a Gold Standard, a strong Yuan and a weak Dollar would make US Products and Services more competitive in the Global Market...the last 4 Administrations have been complaining that the Chinese have been keeping their currency artificially low so they can retain the market share...
Ooops... I should not have used 'they', it is ambiguous. I should have said.... (and correct spelling)
"I suspect the only reason the Chinese wouldn't do that is it would tend to drive the Yuan up in value, and I don't think they want that."

Edit to add... of course, in the 'great game', perhaps the US would be perfectly content to 'bait' the Chinese this way (basically agreeing with your comment).


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