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If the birthers persist, they may succeed without proving or disproving that Obama is a natural born citizen. Their success depends upon whether they can convince a sufficiently large number of the American public that he is illegitimate, and if they can convince enough of the military officer corp that he is illegitimate.

If the birthers are successful, it will matter for naught that he is the President of the United States: he will go as surely as Richard M. Nixon was President, and he went. The crux will be, Can the man govern?

If enough of the population believes that the President is illegitmate, then they will remove their consent to be governed. They may disobey small laws in small ways for a serious reason. Pressure will then move up the chain to elected Representative, the public insisting the representative resist or override the President in his legislative agenda and his executive orders. Basically, the President becomes politically neutralized.

The military must have only lawful orders to obey. It is not lawful for them to obey illegal orders, and they risk prosecution overseas if conducting themselves illegally. So they want to know for their own self interest and the interests of their command. So they ask, and ask, and eventually they begin to discuss balking, but not balking, and the Congress sees what is going on, and things are beginning to slow down, faltering....

Congress will find itself forced to act being pressured from below by constituents, and pressured from without by impending defense failure. Congress will move to impeach, to force proof or disproof, because it is their job and they have to.

Which brings us back to Richard M. Nixon. He was the legitimate President, he was not convicted of anything, he just couldn't govern anymore. And he left.

So the birthers can run Obama out of office if Obama fails to produce the necessary and satisfactory documentation. Why he has not produced the documentation, whether he can or cannot or will not is outside of my point. If the birth certificate does not show, Obama might go.

The thing is HE HAS PRODUCED THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE. HE HAS PRODUCED THE NEWSPAPER BIRTH ANNOUNCEMENT. HE HAS PRODUCED EYEWITNESS ACCOUNTS OF ATTENDING MEDICAL STAFF!!!!
The guy has produce more proof that he was born in Hawaii than I could ever produce that I was born in Connecticut, even though I swear I was.

These birthers are following the time tested theory that if you tell the same lie often enough people will start to believe it. Trouble is, in an open society like ours it is very hard to get away with that, and you end up reducing the credibility of those of us who oppose him for legitimate reasons.

Let me explain it for you-

He has presented a Certificate of Live Birth, not a Birth Certificate. A foreign born american can obtain the same document that he has released. I personally know one myself. A true Birth Certificate will show the hospital, attending physician, time, date etc etc... it is the one document that proves you are a natural born citizen.

Why is this so hard to understand for people?

The facts are that Obama has spent a ton of money tying this up in court and refuses to provide this basic document or even allow it to go to trial. This one document would make it all go away, yet nothing but legal footwork to push the trial away.

The problem is that if he isnt a natural born citizen then he cannot be president as per the U.S. Constitution. The government has basically wiped their ass with this document and translate it whatever way fits their current means. But on this subject they cannot translate it any other way.

No I'm not a republican, racist or anything else that many try to identify as anti-obama. I am an American that is pissed off that we get tied up in endless bipartisan debate and never once reference the consitution or founding fathers. You have been sold and you are a slave. The sad part is that 99% of Americans prescribe to this matrix of a 2 party system and fail to realize what is really going on. Our government is exactly what we fought against in the revolutionary war and why the constitution was written. But that basic fact escapes people. This isnt a democracy, it is supposed to be a republic as written in the constitution. You are supposed to be a soveign citizen of your State, not of America.

Look at our current healthcare bill mess. Have you noticed how the rebublicans dont really push the constitutionality of this? Because once they play that card it cant be taken back. How contitutional were the actions of GW Bush? If they try to put that leash on the democrats then they have to wear the same leash when they are running the show.


Neither party represent you. If you think they do then you are living in the matrix. Go buy a copy of the Constitution and Declaration of Independance. Seriously. Then compare our current system to what is outlined in these documents.

Let me explain it to you-
he did release it and still the tin foil hat crowd,mostly from the south and middle-aged white men,won't accept it.
it was verified as valid by the Governor of Hawaii.
its been verified by numerous official and unofficial sources
It came up as a result of accusations of being a muslim and a Kenyan-rascist accusations made almost exclusively by those same white middle aged men who don't like him mostly because he is black.Its obvious to most of the country that the problem isn't with Obama,but the latent rascism that persists among those who just can't accept that a black man-the very symbol of what they hate most-is their president.arry on with your rascism,the whole country sees it for what it is.

Good post goldbait. BUT - DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME -

The Right-Wing sheet wearing crowd don't have the capacity to understand that their President is a black guy and they can't do anything about it .

Been dealing with this crap for a while,Buzz.I don't agree with everything he says or does,but he's been a helluvalot more forthcoming than anyone else recently.And many people belive in him and are ready for something other than what we've had over the last 8 years.
As far as wasting my time,I don't mind hitting back,especially when they have no problem hitting first.They don't want anybody to hit back.

You didnt even read what I wrote. You turned off your mind the minute you saw it was in opposition to your view. You have a closed mind and people such as yourself is the reason america is bogged down in a worthless zombie 2 party system.

You lack any real arguement and must rely on the race card when all else fails. Great job!

Bravo Mastinox. You make your points intelligently and completely. Yet it seems the drones refuse to listen or think. They care not about the Constitution. They call BHO "forthcoming". Because they lack the ability to apply logic and reason, they insult us, label us, call us racists. Why we MUST be racists is beyond me. How do they know I'm not a black man anyway? (I'd love to hear the "PC" answer to that.)

I will agree with you that neither party gives a flying &$%@# about us or our Constitution, however, only one salavates at the thought of controling every aspect of our lives.

Last post on this one, good game...

~Pup

The republicans don't push because they have no plan of their own and no intention of crossing their corporate overlords.They also had complete power long enough to do something about healthcare but didn't;costs skyrocketed,millions were left out or refused treatment by beancounters who valued their job more than human life.
As for the constitution,maybe you should buy a copy for yourself,like most good birthers you haven't proven anything except the stupidity of pursuing an issue based on hatred for a man more than an embrace of the common good.You quote the document,yet ignore the presumption of innocense-if thats how you interpret the most important document in hisory,I'm glad the fringe eement is restricted to placs like this and kitco-at least the buses know where to find you when your finally hauled in.
Thinking people reject the rhetoric you spew because it reeks of anger and hatred,not dissimilar than what could be found on sites like stormfront or aryan nation.Mistrust of government is natural,but when the people are supposed to be the government,your rhetoric places you in the minority and isolates you as the fanatic.Thats how you are seen.

** a black man would never allow the latent rascist rhetoric on this site go unchallenged.How do you know I'm not black?

There you go again with the republican/democrat arguement. If you knew recent history, you would know that the republicans did do something about healthcare, it was called Medicare Plan D and went into effect on January 1, 2006. It was a huge increase in government liability and blatently irresposible.

I do own a copy of the constitution. I read it and understand it

Article 2 Section 1 states-
"No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

How is this even debatable? Just show your birth certificate and it is done. I repeat , not certificate of live birth that has been shown. These are TWO DIFFERENT documents.

You lack a basic understanding of history or the facts at hand. You have no arguement.

As far as Obamacare-

Yes in a perfect world I want free healthcare for all people. But the fact is that every dollar spent on this must be taxed from a productive citizen. Money and production doesnt grow on trees. Government doesnt produce ANYTHING, 100% of their income must be taxed from it's productive citizens. The larger your goverment gets, the smaller your production base gets. Americans live like kings due to the fact that we have spent and borrowed our way to prosperity. It's citizens now expect this same way of life yet dont have the production base to support it, the only way to fund it is with more debt or unbearable taxes. This is a FACT, it isnt even debatable. It is basic economics. In a few years 100% of government revenue will be consumed by medicare,medicaid, and social security. And you want to increase this system that is about to consume everything our government taxes from the people. How do you pay for defense or other basic government functions? It doesnt make any sense at all. Our government is bankrupt and you want to increase spending and take on more liability?

Want an quick idea of what we are facing? Go to youtube and search for a video called "Crash Course" by Chris Martenson. He does a great job of explaining our fiscal situation. Also watch a 30 minute film called IOUSA. After viewing this and having just a small understanding of what we are looking at, ask yourself, is universal healthcare really that great of an idea?

A child can say " why doesnt mommy and daddy buy me everything I want? Why cant I have it all?". The child says this because he lacks the understanding of his families economy. By not understanding our economic situation, you are much like the child that asks for more and more, yet doesnt know or care how it is paid for.

Mast. check this article out. Some people might benefit from reading it. Bottom line, there is nothing wrong with being skeptical.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/08/ ... er_if.html

No need for YouTube, Chris Martenson has a website. I have watched every chapter in the crash course series. Others on this forum have also recommended it. I loved most of it but was a little let down by the final chapter. I guess I was expecting something more.

http://www.chrismartenson.com/

http://thepostnemail.wordpress.com/2009/10/07/judge-carter-denies-motion-to-dismiss-in-barnett-vs-obama/

Judge Carter Denies Motion to Dismiss, in Barnett vs. Obama!

October 7, 2009 by John Charlton
COURT ORDER FINALIZES SCHEDULE FOR TRIAL!

by John Charlton

(Oct. 7, 2009) — Today was published the Court order resulting from the Oct. 5th hearing in Barnett vs. Obama, issued by federal judge, David O. Carter, in the Southern Division of California.

The order, reads as follows:

On September 8, 2009, the Court previously set tentative case management dates. The Court now orders those dates be made final.

Case Management dates are as follows:

Motion for Summary Judgment Hearing — December 7, 2009, at 8:30 a.m.
File Motion for Summary Judgment — November 16, 2009
Opposition to Motion for Summary Judgment — November 26, 2009
Reply to Motion for Summary Judgment — November 30, 2009
Final Pretrial Conference — January 11, 2010, at 8:30 a.m.
Jury Trial — January 26, 2010, at 8:30 a.m.

The implication of the Court’s order finalizing the dates is obvious: you do not finalize dates unless there will be a trial. And there would not be a trial, unless the Motion to Dismiss requested by the Defense was , or will be, in whole or in part DENIED!

These are strange times, Sil. I am generally a strong conservative, but still; I'm not sure this is good or bad. If the court finds him guilty, it means an impeachment. Remember the Nixon mess?

Yes and this time it will be much worse with all the "HOPE" the mass of sheeple have in him.